From Ballet to Scalpel to CEO: Reinvention, Resilience & Hiring Unconventionally
Ready to ditch the resume buzzwords and hire for true potential? Struggling with your own career pivot or leading teams through change? Join Keith Cowing on Executives Unplugged with Dr. Susan Lovelle, a former professional ballet dancer turned plastic surgeon, now founder & CEO of Balanced Performance, and her long-time colleague Tonya Sook, a Certified Family Nurse Practitioner.
Discover Dr. Lovelle's unconventional approach to hiring – prioritizing inner skills over years of experience – and how it built a thriving practice. Hear her incredible story of multiple reinventions, driven by passion and necessity, and learn how to navigate your own transformations. Tonya shares the ground-level view of building a culture of trust and excellence. Learn practical strategies for assessing talent beyond the resume, fostering team alignment, managing your energy to avoid burnout, and applying the "Listen, Let Go, Live" method for peak performance.
Guests
Dr. Susan Lovelle: Former professional ballet dancer (17 years), plastic surgeon, and now Founder/CEO of Balanced Performance, helping executives optimize their health and leadership. Learn more at https://balancedperformance.pro
Tonya Sook APRN-C, FNP: Certified Family Nurse Practitioner specializing in medical aesthetics, hormone therapy, dermatology, and functional medicine, dedicated to holistic patient well-being.
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Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Susan Lovelle: I tell people it was a lot easier to be in medical school than it was to dance. Dancing was physically challenging, it was mentally challenging.
[00:00:11] Um, there was all of that performance and it was such a wonderful thing just to be able to sit in the class and relax. And all I had to do was memorize stuff.
[00:00:19] Keith Cowing: Welcome to Executives Unplugged. I'm Keith Cowing, executive coach to CEOs and product leaders, and I'm here to help you learn from the best leaders and thinkers to improve your judgment, your leadership, and your ability to navigate crazy times. With me today, is Dr. Susan Lovelle. She spent 17 years as a professional ballet dancer. in New York City.
[00:00:40] She then reinvented herself and became a plastic surgeon. Ran a successful practice. Now she's a lifestyle coach and the founder and CEO of balanced performance. Also with me is Tonya Sook. Tonya is a certified family nurse practitioner with specialty spanning medical aesthetics, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, dermatology, and functional medicine.
[00:01:04] Tonya is dedicated to helping patients look and feel their best inside and out. She has also spent years working with Dr. Susan. We explore how to look for skills over experience when assessing talent, how to reinvent yourself, and how to align your team. Let's jump in.
[00:01:20] Keith Cowing: Susan Tonya, welcome to the show.
[00:01:22] Tonya Sook: Thank you.
[00:01:23] Susan Lovelle: so much. Yeah.
[00:01:24] Keith Cowing: Thank you for joining me and uh, Susan, we met a little while ago and there were a couple different topics that brought us together. Part of it is performance coaching and lifestyle coaching. Also, part of it was how do you build teams?
[00:01:35] How do you pull people together? And so I wanted to start with how you hire people at a plastic surgery practice. What you look for, how you assess those skills. Can you walk us through that?
[00:01:47] Susan Lovelle: Oh, absolutely. So I think the thing that that makes me a little bit different is that I don't look at a resume. For, does this person have five years or 10 years of surgical experience? Have they been in the OR before? Have they done certain procedures before? What I'm looking for really is who they are on the inside.
[00:02:06] What is their personality? How are they gonna fit with their team? Do they have the inner, um, workings to be able to grow and expand? And when you hire for that, then everything else falls, you know, falls into place. It's not like. You know, you don't want someone who's coming in from scratch and doesn't know anything.
[00:02:24] But, um, I would rather have someone who doesn't have the experience and who's willing and able to learn, um, and then mold them where I'd like to go, as opposed to someone who may already be very fixed and firm in what they think a plastic surgery practice should look like, should work like, and then it's harder to get them moving in the direction you'd like them to be.
[00:02:47] Keith Cowing: And how do you test for those skills?
[00:02:49] Susan Lovelle: Ooh. Well, we used to, we learned the hard way. Tonya and I and the rest of the team, we learned the hard way that. It wasn't just a one interview kind of thing, we, we would look at their resume, yes. And we'd kind of, you know, pick there, but then we would have people come in and they would meet the entire team all at once.
[00:03:07] And so it was almost a group interview to begin with and we, you know, someone, some of us would be listening while another was asking a question and we just. Saw how they actually interacted with everyone else in the group that had a huge portion of, of, to do. And you pick up a lot of things that way. So it's a great, that group interview thing was very, very helpful and we learned that.
[00:03:29] Um, and then we would try them out. You know, we'd have them come in and see how they, how they thought, how they responded to a particular incident or, you know, a, a protocol or something would say if, if someone came in with this problem. What would you say? What would you do? And we just listened, uh, more.
[00:03:49] Again, not for what we could teach them, but for what they already were and knew on the inside
[00:03:56] Keith Cowing: I love that. I work with a lot of executives and I teach them not to hire based on somebody who's memorized the route and knows how to get there, but somebody who can navigate because the route's gonna blow up and you have to go around and experience can cover up lack of skill if you're not careful.
[00:04:10] Yeah. I still resorted to my intuition of, oh, and plastic surgery. You must hire people that know plastic surgery, and you blew me away when you said, no, actually, that's not how you operate. And so I, I really like that story Now, Tonya. You have to deal with Dr. Susan's decisions with the people that she brings onto the team.
[00:04:28] And so talk to me a little bit about what that looks like in the real
[00:04:31] world, on the ground, in the, or dealing with patients. If you have people that have context on, let's say, maybe the medical world, but not aesthetic specifically, how did that actually play out?
[00:04:41] Tonya Sook: I would say to that, that she cultivated an environment where you could just be yourself, and so it was easy to teach others. You know, the culture that she wanted, the hard work and practice, the exceptional patient care. Patient contact. And, um, it became easy because we had the right personality, um, team to be able to perform the best we could.
[00:05:08] Keith Cowing: Now saying you let people be themselves at work and, and bringing that collaboration is easy on paper. It's hard to do. Can you maybe bring up a couple examples of behaviors at, at the office or from Dr. Susan that made that possible?
[00:05:22] Tonya Sook: Um, yeah, she would, uh, let us take lead on some projects. I'd say. You know, this is many years ago, so not everything was electronic, um, at that time. So we would actually make scrapbooks to show patients before and afters. It wasn't all digital like it is now. And so she would just allow us to use our creativity.
[00:05:45] That would be one example, um, to show off her amazing work. And, um, you know, she would give us praise and. Kind of feed into you just being the best that you could be. And we would stay late and work long hours and whatever we needed to do to get things done, um, for her.
[00:06:09] Keith Cowing: And Dr. Susan, is this something that came natural to you? Is there something you learned over time? What was that like? Leading a practice with a lot of different personalities, a lot of different pressures.
[00:06:21] Susan Lovelle: it definitely was something I learned over time. Um, one of the things that I realized that after I left New York City, so I left New York after 9/11 and came to a very small town in northeast, North Carolina, and I. It wasn't a matter of choosing for plastic surgery expertise because nobody had plastic surgery expertise.
[00:06:42] I was the first one there in the area. So, you know, we started with that. And as far as the other, it was such a big undertaking to build a practice from scratch, to be with people who didn't know to be training both people in the operating room and in my office. How to, you know, how to work in a plastic surgery clinic.
[00:07:05] I couldn't do everything, and I was raising my kids at that time. I had young ones at that point, so there was no way that I could be everybody and everything, and I had to learn to delegate probably sooner than I would've wanted to. But there was just no way that I could do it any other way. And so I delegated, and as people grew.
[00:07:25] Their output became more and more what I liked and loved, and then I realized that this is the way to grow and to scale. So that's what I brought with me when we went to Kansas.
[00:07:36] Keith Cowing: And you mentioned moving outta New York nine 11, you've had some big changes in your life. You've had some big career arcs in your life. You spent 17 years in professional ballet. Then you went to medical school, you became a surgeon and now you're a lifestyle coach, a performance coach.
[00:07:54] So with each of those reinventions. If you will. That's a big change. Can you take us to the one where you shifted from ballet to going to medical school?
[00:08:03] Susan Lovelle: I, I always tell the story that I, dancing was my second idea of what to do. I knew I wanted to be a doctor when I was six years old. I used to get sick a lot, and now as a, this is totally an aside now in functional health, lifestyle, health, I understand why I was getting sick so often.
[00:08:20] But at the time I didn't know. We didn't know. I saw my pediatrician a lot and I fell in love with him. I thought he was like the coolest person in the world. And I told him at six years old that I was going to be a doctor someday, and he said. Okay. You know when you're ready you come back and you let me know.
[00:08:37] Well, 20 plus years later, after my dancing career and I stopped, you know, it was got to the point where dancing wasn't fun anymore. I started looking back into that first love I. I decided to apply and I went back. He not only remembered me, but he wrote me a letter and I know that letter had a lot to do with me getting into medical school.
[00:08:59] So it seems like it was a, you know, a total about face, but it was really something that had been in my heart from when I was a little girl. Um, that was that change. And I went to medical school and like you said. I tell people it was a lot easier to be in medical school than it was to dance. Dancing was physically challenging, it was mentally challenging.
[00:09:23] Um, there was all of that performance and it was such a wonderful thing just to be able to sit in the class and relax. And all I had to do was memorize stuff. So medical school was a lot simpler than dancing, believe it or not. People don't believe me often.
[00:09:39] Keith Cowing: And when you went from surgery to your current work, being a lifestyle coach, being a performance coach, what was that change like? How'd you make that decision? Was it all at once? Is it over time? Who did you talk to to navigate that?
[00:09:52] Susan Lovelle: Ooh. Definitely over time. And the issue, and Tonya can, can chime in on this, the issue was, um, I wasn't taking care of myself. You know, we were very, very busy. You know, we, we had. Surgeries all day and, and operating, and then I was still being mom at in the evenings. And I ended up in the intensive care unit three times in the space of a year.
[00:10:16] I had three blood clots. Uh, two of them went to my lungs pulmonary emboli. The third time I almost didn't make it out of the hospital. And that third time I had to stop and say. This is not working. You know what I'm doing is not working. Not only does it not work for me, doesn't work for my family, doesn't work for my team.
[00:10:36] 'cause what am I teaching them? If you remember Tonya, we had, I had a couch. They used to be in my office and we brought the couch and put it next to the exam room because I didn't have enough energy to walk down the hall in between patients. That's what I was doing. And I finally said, okay, this has gotta change.
[00:10:54] Um, I went to traditional medicine initially, uh, they tried to put me on high dose steroids and all that did was make me really dizzy. And I finally said, okay, let me find a different way. And that's when IF first found my, uh, functional medicine provider. Who looked at what was going on, a lot of different things, gut, health, cortisol, all of the things that we're now teaching other people.
[00:11:18] And literally within a few months I started changing and feeling better. Um, and I never looked back.
[00:11:25] Keith Cowing: Dr. Susan, when you're working with clients now and you're helping them through the various things that they're dealing with, how do you help them think about finding their energy? You know, really learning from some of the things that you've learned going through your reinvention and bringing it out in other folks.
[00:11:39] What do you coach them to watch out for? What do you coach them to listen to in terms of their own intuition?
[00:11:45] Susan Lovelle: Ooh so much in that, um, the very first thing that I do is I try to have them. Stop looking at things like a condition as, this is me, I am diabetes, or I have, you know, high blood pressure, or I, this is me. As opposed to saying, okay, what are the forces, what are the root causes of what is bringing this about in your life?
[00:12:07] So if they do have diabetes or high blood pressure, or an autoimmune condition, is it their, you know, is it their stress levels looking down at, rather than the trees on the, the leaves on the tree, you know? Which may be brown. And if you are just giving a medicine, all you're doing is painting those leaves green.
[00:12:26] Okay? They look better, but. They're not any better down in the roots. So if we look at the roots, it's their stress, their nutrition, their sleep, their hormones, you know, even their personal relationships. All of these things combined to make us either healthier or not. And that's the first thing that I start to bring to everyone that I'm working with, because they have to understand that it's not just a, you know, have an Ill take a pill.
[00:12:52] It's more let's figure out what's really going on and fix that.
[00:12:55] Then the next step that we take people through is what I call the L three method. Listen, let go and live. So listen to what your body's telling you. So even if everybody, all of the experts are telling you everything's fine, if you don't feel right, something's not right. Listen, let go of whatever isn't serving you.
[00:13:15] And then finally, it's living your own version of thriving, no matter what that is. You know, don't let anybody else tell you what's right for you.
[00:13:24] Keith Cowing: Yeah, that hits deep where I think I've always been very good at listening, taking in all the inputs, listening to myself being an independent thinker, but letting go and living are. Things I've been working on, iterating on. Uh, I've actually, letting go has been my theme for the year of trying to, I'm a perfectionist and trying to get that out of the way.
[00:13:40] In some ways it really helps me. That's some of the quality of the work I create, but in some ways it just gets in the way and just working on sort of letting go of things that don't have to be perfect and just push and just go. Uh, and it's hard. It's a big shift to make.
[00:13:53] Susan Lovelle: It is, it is. And when you're in a field like cosmetics or aesthetics or plastic surgery or even what I'm doing now, you wanna be perfect. You don't wanna have those, those errors and, but sometimes you have to let go. You have to let go of, of putting yourself on that, you know, in such a, a tough place to work.
[00:14:14] Keith Cowing: So think about this human psychology, Tonya. I have never worked in the medical field, but I spent a lot of time with medical professionals and one of the things I always admire about nurse practitioners and nurses is that they have this gentleness meets firmness. Balance where they can sit there and have empathy and listen and let a patient let it all out and, and not interrupt and not tell them they're wrong and just really, truly listen.
[00:14:37] But then also at the end, grab them by the hand and say, look, this is what we're gonna do, and I'd lead them. And that patient reads the room like, you're not gonna take no for an answer and they're gonna go with you. And there's an art to that. And I would love to hear you talk a little bit about like how you see that in practice and, and how that psychology comes through and the work that you do.
[00:14:56] Is that something you just. Learn being in the field. Do you think nurses are hired for that skill ahead of time? How does that come about? I think a lot of leaders could learn from that.
[00:15:06] Tonya Sook: Yeah, I think, I think it's a combination of learned, um, in school as well as cultivated on the job for sure. But just developing that trust relationship at an initial encounter with a patient and validating them, um, is huge. and they will trust you.
[00:15:24] Like, okay, we're gonna do these things like you are going to have your head on, right? And you are gonna make good choices for yourself so that you feel better. 'cause that's why you're here today and it's my job to guide you. Promote you and energize you to be able to take the steps in order to do that and help when you're guiding them, help them understand the why of what we're doing and that it's a process.
[00:15:48] sometimes it's, you know, a slam dunk very quickly. , And sometimes it's a rocky process , I've had health issues that I, uh, you know, we try to be tough and we don't really talk about and we swipe them under the rug and we're strong and we're, you know, um, medical professionals and, um, but, but when you are looking at the outside in, um, there are things that you are dealing with or conquering or working to clear those kind of things to be the best.
[00:16:18] It's not like you're just on this journey and you're just getting better and better and better. There are little pumps in the road and little things that change that.
[00:16:28] Keith Cowing: It's never linear.
[00:16:29] Tonya Sook: I've had a few of those little, little humps.
[00:16:33] Keith Cowing: What's an example of something you think you more brought to the table naturally and what's something you really had to learn through the craft of coming to work every day and practicing?
[00:16:42] Tonya Sook: Something that I've really had to learn is that you can't help everyone. And so that is something that I, with deep in your heart, you wanna help everyone. You wanna make people better, but there are those patients where you just have to be like, you know, I, I did everything in my. Power to try to help them.
[00:16:58] And some of them don't listen, some of them don't wanna get better. Some of them are stuck mentally, like she said, within their own illness, and they can't change their thinking to get better. And so I think those are probably the hardest patients for me to get over. But the more I've been doing it, the more I understand that. You just have to let those go and keep working with the ones that you are helping,
[00:17:28] Keith Cowing: And how did you learn to handle that?
[00:17:31] Tonya Sook: I guess just with failure and time and, uh, perseverance
[00:17:35] Keith Cowing: speaking of hard work and showing up every day, Dr. Susan, there's a few common threads that I see from the outside through your different career arcs in ballet and surgery and performance coaching, and one is. Discipline and craft of showing up every single day to get one 10th of a percent better.
[00:17:53] And, uh, I grew up in a small town, New Hampshire Drive pickup trucks. I'm the farthest thing from a Manhattan, you know, professional dancer you can get. But, um, I, I have a lot of respect for any craft where you just have to work so hard at it to, to. You know, be able to participate. And ballet is certainly in that category.
[00:18:11] And so when you think about the discipline you've had to show throughout your career, how does that come into play with your current work and how do you help other people learn that? You know, sometimes it's, it's just that hard work every single day to be able to make that change that they wanna see happen.
[00:18:28] Susan Lovelle: Yeah. It's as, as I was saying before, the, the comparison between medical school and dancing was. There just was no comparison as far as how difficult it was and how disciplined you had to be. And so for me, I think I came in with a leg up. So even though I was older than most of the other people in the, in the medical school, I also had a lot more discipline.
[00:18:50] And so it was easier for me. And then I took that with me that not only the discipline, but the whole show must go on with me as I went into surgery. And then is I go into what I'm doing now, so. Even now, my family sometimes has to kind of come and gimme a gentle nudge to get off the computer and take a break because I'm so, I'm so enthralled with what I can do and the changes that I can make in people's lives and in company's lives that, you know, I don't wanna stop.
[00:19:22] But if you don't, as. As I have learned the hard way, eventually your body tells you you have to. So that whole discipline, um, I've taken with me in each of my careers and it's just made life much, much easier, uh, as we go along.
[00:19:38] Keith Cowing: Families are good reminders to enjoy life 'cause they won't let you get away with it.
[00:19:43] Susan Lovelle: they are.
[00:19:45] Keith Cowing: And then one other common thread that I see is this aspect of performance where in ballet you're performing on a stage in surgery, you're performing in a way in the. Braiding room. And now there is an element of performance to what you do, inspiring and energizing other people and leaders, but also teaching them how to bring themselves in a performance way to, to lead their teams.
[00:20:07] And, um, I don't mean performance in the way of bringing something forward that isn't, but just the idea of how you show up your energy or inspiration. And so how do you think about performance for your clients and, and how it impacts them in their life?
[00:20:21] Susan Lovelle: that's actually how I get them to understand what I can give to them. Because let's be honest, nobody wants to know I should eat this and not eat that, and I should get better sleep, or I should work that we, we all either know it or don't want to hear it, or the combination of both. But when you tell them that, you know, when you do these things, your productivity is going to increase by 20, 30, 40%, you are going to sleep better.
[00:20:45] You know you're gonna have a better night's sleep, you're gonna wake up more rested when you show them what the results are, what the, what the performance is. You know, when you are company, if you are heading a company, if you are the engine of that company, if you are exhausted. Where's your company going?
[00:21:00] If you are feeling, you know, full of energy and vital and at the top of your game, your company's gonna go in the right direction. So it's really a matter of showing them what the changes result in, not so much what the changes are.
[00:21:15] Keith Cowing: And there's a lot of storytelling in that, that you're, that you're really hitting on. How do you bring the story to people in a way that can resonate?
[00:21:21] Susan Lovelle: Exactly. Exactly. And I love those, you know, just the people that I work with and, um, you know, just hearing one person's story.
[00:21:32] You know, and how they changed and how not only did they change, but either their company changed or their family changed because they saw them getting better and feeling better and, and being more productive. Um, having more energy. All of these things are just, just make it so much easier for them, but also for me to explain and to, um, model it for others going forward.
[00:21:57] Keith Cowing: We talked about reinvention, your different arcs. Have you figured it all out now or is there more reinvention still to come for Dr. Susan?
[00:22:05] Susan Lovelle: Well, the biggest reinvention now is the whole corporate wellness side. Um, the executive and corporate health, because it's, it is, I've evolved from plastic surgery to lifestyle health one-on-one to then groups, and now, you know, I'm, I'm going and speaking to companies, to schools, to um, to organizations, because let's be honest.
[00:22:28] One-on-one. Yes, you, you can do a lot and you absolutely can. But when you're talking to hundreds of thousands of people at a time, and even if you're just hitting say 5% of those people, what are you able to do? So that's where I am now.
[00:22:42] Keith Cowing: And that really magnifies your impact. Is that part of what you're optimizing for?
[00:22:46] Susan Lovelle: Yes, absolutely.
[00:22:49] Keith Cowing: And Tonya, what have you learned from being around DR. Season?
[00:22:53] Tonya Sook: Well, I think.
[00:22:58] I.
[00:22:59] Like infectious, you know, she just, she's motivated to just do whatever she has in store. Um, and, um, just her spirit, her energy, her compassion, um, it's contagious.
[00:23:14] Keith Cowing: Have you ever seen the angry side of Dr. Susan? What's like when she
[00:23:17] Tonya Sook: Not, not very often. I did, I did see it one time with one particular patient, um, which was well deserved. So, um, I, I would say no for the most part, very delightful and in a learning way. She would, you know, guide and help coach, um, of how better to take care of a, a patient situation, but. Uh, no, I mean, and which is really actually profound for a surgeon not to have that personality because most of 'em are very short tempered, um, a lot of times because they, they have to be, 'cause they're super, you know, in high stress all the time.
[00:23:58] Um, and doing very detailed craft. And so, yeah, I think that speaks volumes about her.
[00:24:07] Keith Cowing: And short and tempered are the politically correct words to use here. And, um, there are, there are other ones that some people could as well. So, Dr. Susan, how do, how do you think about that? Is that, like, are you an outlier in the personality traits of
[00:24:20] Susan Lovelle: Oh,
[00:24:21] by far.
[00:24:22] Keith Cowing: Is that just, is that inherent, do you think? Where, where do you get that from?
[00:24:26] Susan Lovelle: Uh, I think a lot of it is me. Yes. I mean, that is just who I, who I am as a person. I don't like, I don't like being, feeling stressed out. Um, I don't like being confrontational and I would rather, you know, if I'm in the OR and something's not going right. I, let's be honest, I am at the head of the team, so if I start freaking out, the entire team is going to devolve.
[00:24:50] Um, and so, you know, I can flip that the other way. When I was being trained, um, in surgery we had two, two, uh, surgeons. And one of them was very much the, the throw stuff and you know, just what you think of a, as a normal surgeon. And then the other was. Like just always calm. You could never ruffle him. And I looked at that and I said, okay, that's who I'm gonna follow.
[00:25:16] That's who I could be in the operating room. 'cause his results were always great. You know, the other guy, maybe up, maybe down, but the one who was always calm, you know, not only did everyone love him, but his patients did and they always did the best. So.
[00:25:31] Keith Cowing: I've, I've met a lot of surgeon. I think you've smiled more in this session than some of them do in a year. Um,
[00:25:39] Susan Lovelle: probably.
[00:25:40] Keith Cowing: Dr. Susan, what have you learned from being around Tonya?
[00:25:43] Susan Lovelle: The main thing from that is that you can look really sweet on the outside, but if you, when you are tough on the inside, your patients know what to do and she always has had that, eh, from day one.
[00:25:55] Keith Cowing: I talk a lot about one two punches these days where you really e, everything's a dichotomy in leadership and you really need multiple things that you balance and bring together and you can beat everybody or you can always, you know, be a pushover, but it's really being able to have. Both of those sides and use them in the right combination.
[00:26:11] That's magical and also really hard. You need to have good judgment and you need to have human connection.
[00:26:16] And if you have those things, those things are timeless.
[00:26:18] Susan Lovelle: Yes, absolutely.
[00:26:20] Keith Cowing: A lot of fantastic stories here and how you get the right people on the team, how you reinvent yourself.
[00:26:25] Something a lot of people are going through right now. How you manage through the psychology of that, how you empower other people, how you have a big impact. This has had a big impact on me. I really appreciate your time. It was a privilege speaking to both of you. Thank you for joining me on the show.
[00:26:39] Susan Lovelle: Thank you. Thank you so much.
[00:26:41] Keith Cowing: I enjoyed that conversation. I hope you did as well. Here are a few of my favorite takeaways. One, hire for skills over experience. This is so important. It's hard to do, but it makes a huge difference when you're able to do it in your company, in your organization. Number two, we can reinvent ourselves. We have it in us to do entirely different jobs, entirely different things.
[00:27:01] With AI hitting this is more important than ever. But we have underlying fundamental skills. We just have to make it happen. And so believe in yourself and it will come true. And then listen and let go. You heard this from Dr. Susan. I think this is a powerful lesson. I'm particularly working on letting go as a part of my self coaching this year.
[00:27:19] And the final one here, balance, empathy, and assertiveness. You heard. Dr. Susan explained how Tonya is really nice on the exterior, but she's firm on the inside when she needs to be. And balancing that empathy and that assertiveness, while that can take you a long way in life, and it really is about these dichotomies and leadership when we're balancing multiple things and putting 'em together to accomplish something that otherwise us or the team never would've been able to do.
[00:27:45] And so I really hope you enjoyed this if you did. Please give it a five star review and share it with a friend. It greatly helps the show and it also helps other people find the content and benefit from it. Until next time, enjoy the ride.
