Driving Rapid Change Without Breaking Your Team: Mastering the Art of Cadence and Commitment
The pressure on leaders to deliver rapid, transformative change has never been higher. But how do you move fast without leaving your people behind?
In this episode, host Keith Cowing sits down with Perry Steinberg, a seasoned Chief Product Officer with deep experience leading through high-stakes transitions at both public companies and fast-paced private equity-backed firms. Perry unpacks his core leadership philosophy for navigating this exact challenge, revealing how to maintain cohesion and drive results simultaneously.
In this conversation, you will learn:
The Art of Cadence and Commitment: The methods Perry uses to build trust and alignment, even when making difficult decisions.
Leading the 'Mindset Shift': Discover techniques to guide an organization through a fundamental change in thinking and strategy.
From Chaos to Cohesion: Hear how Perry unified disparate teams and roadmaps post-acquisition to create a single, focused vision.
Staying Relevant in the AI Era: Understand why past playbooks are obsolete and what skills are critical for leadership in a world of constant technological disruption.
This episode is for any leader tasked with steering their organization through uncertainty.
Full Transcript
Perry Steinberg: 0:00
What I did before is not going to be good enough. I need to continuously evolve and make it better going forward.
Keith Cowing: 0:11
This is Executives Unplugged, raw and honest conversations with C-Suite leaders about how to lead through change. I'm Keith Cowing, your host and executive coach, and my guest today is Perry Steinberg. Perry is an experienced chief product officer, both at large public companies and multiple private equity backed organizations where he had to read the field, make rapid change and align the team. Let's jump in. Perry, welcome to the show.
Perry Steinberg: 0:39
Thank you, Keith. I'm, I'm really excited to be here.
Keith Cowing: 0:42
Awesome. Well, one thing I wanted to start with is there's a lot of people that have exposure to the venture world and founders and startups and have exposure to the Mag seven and the big public companies. Private equity is an area where in the software and tech world. A lot of people aren't familiar with it, and you have experience being an executive and leading innovation at some really interesting private equity backed companies. And I would love you to peel back the covers on that a little bit and talk to us about what it's like to be an executive at a private equity backed company.
Perry Steinberg: 1:11
Terrific. Yeah, I've, had a very, uh, fortunate kind of transition of, my career from working for five years at a big public, company that, ended up getting sold. and then I went into the private equity world as a, two time CPO. So I, I'm, excited to bring those insights to, uh, everyone within your podcast.
Keith Cowing: 1:26
And what do you think the venture world or VC-backed startups or people at enterprises, big, giant public companies could learn from How private equity firms and their portfolio companies operate?
Perry Steinberg: 1:39
The
Keith Cowing: 1:39
measuring what matters, a adaptable, and, this conversation that we regarding generalists uh, specialists, re really kind of highlight the areas where there's, um, experience, skills and knowledge kind of really start blending, um, the two together.
Perry Steinberg: 1:55
It's definitely a different mindset. Um, when you think about public versus venture versus private equity, but there's a lot of, um, parallels that are, are really important and, and skills that you could cross over.
Keith Cowing: 2:07
What was different for you in that transition, and what did you have to adjust or learn to be successful in that new environment?
, Perry Steinberg: 2:15
it changes very fast. Um, you know, when, when you think about what I was doing at, at, uh, a big public company, uh, with roughly 700 million in revenue, I. Uh, that we had grown from 300 million and then jumping into a private equity backed a hundred million dollar revenue, uh, company. The private equity firm wanted really, really quick answers, so understanding, and it was all numbers based. So getting the organization to really focus on the, on the numbers, understanding where the numbers came from, and that's both, um, what's going on with, with revenue by byproduct. What's going on with, with your, your client, clients and customers, and where's the investment, especially from an RD perspective, where's the investment going and what are, if, if this private equity firm is investing in this portfolio company? I, as the chief product officer, really need to have a good understanding of my numbers, uh, and what's going on within my organization, uh, which is where the, the leadership comes in and, and the, the parallels with a, a, a bigger organization.
Keith Cowing: 3:15
And so as Chief Product Officer, what did you have to adjust in terms of how you run your team or how you think or how you lead after making that transition?
Perry Steinberg: 3:23
The biggest thing was knowing that about what. Essentially my UNPLUGGEDboss, right? The board, uh, and the CEO want from me or what they need from me, and then being able to help my team get me that information. Uh, they, they hadn't been used to that. And when I came in as a chief product officer, a lot of it was, it was helping change the mindset. Mindset shift from the folks on my team to make sure that, that I was pushing them to get numbers for their products and so that I was able to help lead them through this transition. And it's that, that that transition that I think, uh, is, is critical when you think about private equity. It happens at big, big organizations, especially right now with the, the, the technology wave that's coming through. Uh, but private equity and, and, and frankly, venture backed, uh, organizations really focus on what is going on with the numbers. How are we as, as the organization and, and leadership heading in the right direction and what direction is that?
Keith Cowing: 4:24
And a lot of what you're talking about is change, rapid change, and you were at metadata, which went from a few hundred million in revenue to 750 plus if I have my numbers correct. As a public company, and you led a big part of that innovation. Curve and then you came into a private equity backed company, something different going on. What was different about that revenue growth that you experienced earlier to, okay, now there's a bunch of different changes we need to make, but they name may not be the same changes, it may be different type of rapid change. What did you learn in that transition about yourself as a leader?
Perry Steinberg: 4:57
Getting to the numbers. Being adaptable and really focusing around. Again, I mentioned this before, that the concept of being a, a, a generalist and pushing my team on the details. So, coming in as a chief Product officer, I'm, I, wasn't required to know everything at that company. I was required to ask the questions, to get at the information that that was extremely, uh, valuable for the private equity to, to bring out the, the business outcomes. So it's. Again, figuring out what, what is, what is right, and, and measuring that information, being adaptable to help, um, change the organization. So change this mindset shift, and then really using my, my, my leadership skills to ask the questions. To get at the answers and, and not taking no. And, and the, you know, the, the five why's become very important as you're taking on this leadership role because you need to, to, to get to the answers, uh, that, that your, your board is, is requiring, which is similar that to an experience that you might see as a leader at, at a, at a large public company. But the pressure and the, the, the time needed to, to get at that is, is, uh, um, expedited within, uh, a private equity world.
Keith Cowing: 6:13
And when you think about a private equity firm, there's different holding periods. There's different companies, but let's say they hold something for three to five years and then they sell it, or IPO, it. You need to drive results in 36 months, 48 months, you, you can't be, you know, 10 year moonshot or just turn in the crank every year. So as you try to drive that change, what were some of the obstacles you ran into, get tactical with us. If somebody's in the C-suite at one of these companies, or aspiring to be an executive at one of these companies, what are the some of the things that you learned that worked and didn't work and how you adjusted and adapted?
Perry Steinberg: 6:46
My time at, at Abacus next Zola, which is now karat, when I came into that organization that the current hold period was, uh, roughly, roughly four, uh, three, three to four years. Uh, and we ended up exiting after about five years of, of their hold period. When I came in, uh, my, my job as a CPO was to get my arms around what the existing roadmap was, and the company had grown through acquisition, so all the roadmaps looked completely different, and there was no co um, coherent story that, that, uh, from a product and technology perspective. were, we were telling or talking about. So when I came in, it was taking all these different roadmaps, putting it together, understanding what that story was, and then looking at what our corporate strategy was. And so with all the different roll-ups, my, my goal was to create the image and the idea of what we were doing and, and making sure our investments, uh, were all heading in the right direction. We ended up pivoting, uh, the, the roadmap and really focusing around where we thought a lot of the value was, and that was, was payment processing. The investment. We, we were able to, to measure where we were at, understand where we wanted to go, and then my goal was to shift the organization to focus more around the payments capabilities. When we exited the business, the exit was very much around not only the business process that that Abacus Next Zola, now Carrot was focused on, but also we expanded the breadth of, of the portfolio to include a big portion of payments. To understand that that payment throughput within that industry segment, uh, which was, was legal and accounting, and now all of a sudden led to the exit because we aligned the investment profile of, of str, uh, of the product strategy to where we were going as, as, as a corporate strategy.
Keith Cowing: 8:36
Now telling it in reverse, it sounds very obvious. It, it never is in the moment when you're trying to figure out and you're placing a bet on behalf of the company. On behalf of yourself. On behalf of your team. How did you get to conviction that that was the right answer. Talk to us about decision making.
Perry Steinberg: 8:51
We were talking to a lot of people, the clients out in the marketplace. We were talking to a lot of the executives around the organization, uh, and around, around the market. And we were talking to, uh, uh, other private equity firms out that were looking to potentially do some, some acquisitions. So. again, very, very similar to a venture capital, uh, type investment where you're focusing on product market fit. Or as you, as you think about building out a roadmap at a larger organization, it's all about the client. It's all about where they, where's the customer going, uh, and where's the market going? I. What's going on within the competitive landscape? So, uh, we, when we think about the, the five Cs, uh, going back to, to, uh, you know, marketing and, and product market fit, that becomes critical. And that's very similar to what you had experienced across the board. That was, was the, the big mindset shift that, that the product development organization, but product and engineering we're focused that. We're not focused on that. I was able to, to shift that organization. So that, that is the, the a big key point that, that I brought as, as a leader around that, that product market
Keith Cowing: 9:53
For people who haven't heard, what are those five C's of marketing?
Perry Steinberg: 9:56
Company, customers, competitors, collaborators or partners, and then the climate or, or market climate. Understanding what, what is going on. So when you think about those five Cs, bringing that from a, a, a. Leadership perspective to to continuously, uh, question and, and get to the why. And you as a, a chief product officer don't need to have all the answers. You need to ask the questions, and this is, this is leadership in general. Ask the questions of, of your team. Make sure that the, the, the product leadership is going to the, the, the clients and working with them, making sure that they're, they're going within the company of all the, the knowledge centers of who's talking to the clients that sales and, and account manager and, and support. So it's really focusing around getting a complete picture of what is going on and then making sure that's aligned to the corporate strategy of what you're trying to do from a corporate perspective.
Keith Cowing: 10:50
And a lot of what I hear there is you're setting the stage, you're framing how the team can think about it. You're giving them some structure, some guardrails to think within, and then you're letting them run to give you insights and ways that you can. Sometimes we get overly framework and there's too many frameworks in life, but having. A few good ones to at least anchor how you're thinking. And then you can present that with a really crisp story. Here's the factors, here's why we wanna do this. And so that's your insight. You got the insight. Now you gotta engage with your stakeholders to get everybody on board. Walk me through that piece of it. How did you, the first 10% is getting the answer, the next 90 percents running the internal persistent marketing campaign to get everybody jazzed about the direction. Talk to me about that part. What was challenging about getting the CEO of the board, the team on board to really support this?
Perry Steinberg: 11:35
one of the things that I love about working at private equity backed companies. Is everyone has, from a leadership perspective, the board, the CEO, um, every, everyone really from a, a VP on up. They, they know that that's why they're there and they're there to make these quick decisions and they're there. Um. As you, as the organization evolves, that's a big piece of what needs to happen. So my, my role as a chief product officer has been within, especially these last, last, uh, two organizations, is working with the leadership team. So that, that is a big part of my job is, is just to network and set the stage, it becomes less about. Um, really what my team wants this or my team wants that, but we as a, a collective whole need to support this direction and making sure that, that, that from a leadership perspective, we're all pointing in this in the same, uh, same direction. And, uh, that kind of paves the way for everyone within my team to be able to work collaboratively across the board and that, and that's where you get into, um, making sure that we're setting the right stage.
Keith Cowing: 12:40
Awesome. And when you talk about collaboration, you're talking about trust. People are trusting you that this is gonna be the right direction. And psychologists to throw another framework out there, talk about four components of trust, which is your integrity, what you stand for as a human, your intent, what you're optimizing for, and your competence. How. Rigorous and good you are at what you do, and then your consistency. Do we just know what you're gonna do when you show up every day? Because we know what to expect when you're in the room. Can you talk a little bit about some of your behaviors specifically that you think helped build that trust? It's easy to have silent things that erode trust without realizing it. And building the small behaviors that could build trust on your team, on the executive team at the board level are really critical. And sometimes they're not intuitive and would love for you to paint a picture of that.
Perry Steinberg: 13:25
what I talk about very similar to what, what you kind just articulated is cadence and commitment. And so when I'm meeting with my team at, at any point that cadence and commitment that, that we as, as people need to have, uh, throughout the organization, becomes critical to, to build that trust. So if I say I'm gonna do something, I. I need to do it. And that, that's the commitment piece. And the cadence is when is it expected? What is, is the, the, the kind of steps that I'm going to take? And when we see that within, within leadership, it, it becomes critical to build that trust. And as I talk to my team. My, and the organization and the other leaders, I want to embody that, that cadence and commitment to build that trust so that, that everyone within my team, and not only internally, a big piece of it becomes how clients are listening to, to not only my team, but the rest of the organization to make sure that we are living up to, to that cadence and commitment that we've, we've, uh, laid out during conversations.
Keith Cowing: 14:29
And if you're coaching, let's say a director who wants to become a VP or a VP that wants to become a C-suite, and specifically around cadence and commitment as one core component of what's gonna give them trust with all of their stakeholders, what questions are you asking to help them uncover the things that they really need to do to crank up that cadence and velocity and commitment?
Perry Steinberg: 14:52
one of the things that I think is one of my secret sauces, I, I love asking questions. And so then it leads to a general curiosity and a lot of it is, um, not necessarily about kind of my piece of the business, right? It's about how could I help Keith Cowing actually help? What do you need for me to be successful? that is, is not for me to decide, that is for me to ask the question to you and then to partner with you as another executive, uh, and leader within the organization because. You know what, the only way for, for me, Perry Steinberg, to be successful is for Keith Cowing to also be successful, and I need to ask that question and then really structured around the, the, those, those five, five Cs what do you need? Your customers, whatever, whatever, however you're defining your customer at that time. If you're in sales, it, it's, it's gonna be, uh, new prospects. If it's, uh, account management, it's gonna be your existing customers, same thing from, from a, uh, uh, competitor perspective. So when you think about those five Cs, I wanna partner with you to make sure that you're gonna be successful around all components of the business.
Keith Cowing: 16:04
Yeah, I love that. And a lot of what you're talking about is, you mentioned it mindset shift, and there's skills here that we need. I've spent my career working with venture-backed startups or very early public companies like LinkedIn and Twitter after their IPOs and and private equity backed companies that had changes they need to make. But now I spent a lot of my time actually working with Fortune 500 companies that need to drive rapid change, but maybe. Aren't used to it historically in the same level that venture and PE-backed firms have. And so a lot of this rapid change as a skill is actually playing everywhere right now because of the AI shift. And so what are you seeing just from a skills and mindset perspective in the market that you think's gonna be required for everybody to lead the way through this transition that we're just in the early days of,
Perry Steinberg: 16:52
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's a really interesting point. Uh, I am, I'm reading kind of slash listening to a book called The Coming Wave, um, by Mustafa Suleyman. The great thing about, uh, kind of a book format versus a podcast that we all listen to is that it, it could go depth, uh, around a lot of different topics to, to lay out kind of the arc of, of, in this case, the coming wave. And it talks about the evolution of technology and what technology has done, uh, in diff in different waves. Everything from, from the printing press and uh, and what the printing press originally started out doing to, to kind of where, where it was going Obviously hindsight is 2020, the, I think the big question is, are we in that, are we at the, the, the start of that new wave around AI and what is it gonna do, uh, to society? I do think that that mindset shift to understand what, what we need to, to do as, as employees, as leaders, uh, as society, uh, to understand how that's going to impact, um. Everything in life, uh, to how how every single person does their job today is going to evolve and is going to change. as leaders, especially within venture and private equity, lot of that comes down to a, a mindset shift to help our teams and organizations evolve. And it's gonna happen quickly. And unlike maybe. Uh, the last technology wave that has that, that, that occurred where it was factory line workers. Now it's impacting everybody, um, white collar and blue collar. And, uh, us as leaders need to understand how we could take the skills that we've learned and, and built over, over the, the course of 15, 20, 30 year career, what is gonna be applicable in, in this new, new wave. And that, that's the mindset shift I think that, that, that you're referring to.
Keith Cowing: 18:43
Yeah, mindset shift is really hard too. And one analogy I've been using with folks is that it used to be that your career looked like an equity financial return early in your career, learn in your twenties, earn in your thirties, you're a growth stock. And then later in your career you could look more like fixed income, where you could sit back and get the dividends and the interest if you wanted to. You could continue to grow, but you didn't have to. You could reap the rewards of 20, 30, 40 years. Of knowledge, industry expertise, relationships. What if AI wipes out the dividends and interest and you can only rely on the growth and you're only as good as your next move? And that's probably not as binary as that. But I think if we don't think about it in that way, we're really gonna be in trouble from a mindset perspective because we can't rely on those dividends and interests.'cause they may not be there. And I think portions of them will go away, portions will stay. But thinking about. We're only as good as our next move, which means we have to be evolving and we have to be changing just as fast. Even if we've spent decades and been in the C-Suite and had these senior leadership roles, it really doesn't matter anymore. And that's hard to admit for a lot of people. But if you admit that, then you can say, okay, now what do I need to do about it? And the mindset, I think is harder to shift than the action planning. The action planning actually is pretty easy in a lot of my experience. But man, that's tricky to go through psychologically.
Perry Steinberg: 20:02
Yeah, you know, it, it's interesting, I, I mean, back years and years ago, um. As, uh, coming out of, of undergrad, I was a, a computer scientist and, and, uh, economics major at UCLA. And I thought everything was about numbers. It was always about building code, about evolving a business and, and what, what technology are you gonna implement to make a business more efficient? And my first job outta school was at, uh, Arthur Anderson, Accenture, had a huge practice called change management. And I thought, well, that's stupid. do, what do you need change management for? I mean, people should just accept it and, and move on and adopt the technology.'cause it's cool and it's gonna make everything efficient. Well later. Did I, I learn like that is a huge business and the idea of helping, um. Companies evolve and learn and people understanding what, what needs to change and how do they need to, to change their, their way of, of, uh, their mindset in order to get something done. Um, and I, I actually think that is going to be a huge piece of, of what we all need to do because this, this concept of, of being a, a specialist in something and being able to, to rely on, on years of experience. I got chat, PT, and perplexity right at my fingertips. I could be an expert in anything, in in seconds.
Keith Cowing: 21:24
And we didn't choose it this time where if you go work at a startup, you've chosen to go for high growth, high risk, high reward, high change, and you're giving up on some other things like stability, and then some people self-selected and into, well, I'm gonna work at this big company and I don't need the craziness, but I do like the stability and I work with smart people, and it's a good product, and now all of a sudden the stability's gone. You have to deal with the rapid change. And so we didn't ask for it, but we have it. Whether we like it or not. And now the question is, what are we gonna do about it? And helping people through that mindset shift, I think is gonna be really critical for leaders to set the tone that, look, we don't have certainty that's been thrown out the window, it's a fallacy, but we can have clarity on what we're betting on and what we think and what we see, and constantly updating. What are we, what are our assumptions based on? And every month where one press release from a bunch of those assumptions getting blown out the water, and we've seen it over the past couple years, and you gotta be able to make rapid decisions with limited information, use your judgment, use your creativity. The old fashioned human skills that have always been important, I think now would be 10 times as important around judgment, leadership, and creativity.
Perry Steinberg: 22:31
Yeah. Look, I, I, I think. Uh, Ben Horowitz and Mark Andreessen from a16Z just actually had a, a, a podcast talking about this and kind of what their, their, their thesis is and they believe because the specialists. are gonna be extremely important, um, uh, in certain areas, 100%. But when you think of how being a specialist, uh, in your pocket with chatt, PT and, and, and perplexity and Lama, um, understanding what you just said in terms of, of leadership and capabilities and decision making and, and that creativity around being a generalist, uh, is gonna be even more important today because you have so many facts and figures right at your fingertips.
Keith Cowing: 23:11
And I do, I hate to say it, but I really believe it's true that if you're remote, I think this is a bigger issue because you sort of look like an API to your company where you're on Zoom and you're doing the things and you're interacting, but at the end of the day, they sort of send you work and you send the work back and. Zoom is not the same as being in person, which means that you have to outrun the AI You have to straight up outrun the AI because it also has an API and you send it work and it sends the work back. And if you're in person, you're part of the team, you're part of leading, you're communicating in a totally different level of way, and that's real. It doesn't have to be every day, but if there's a big portion of that, I think you bring something. The AI never can, but if you're not a person, you're not bringing that human connection, then you have to outrun the AI. And I think that's a scary bet to place right now.
Perry Steinberg: 23:56
There's, there's definitely areas where, um, being able to, to be, um, I. Apart, yet very close to close together, uh, through, through the technology is only improving. Um, and there are, are areas where being together and, and being co-located is, is extremely important for that teamwork and that, that, uh, collaboration.
Keith Cowing: 24:18
Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting how it all plays out. And a, as we take some of those things and say, okay, transitioning into the future mindset shift, skill shift, you've experienced some really different environments and would love to hear you talk a little bit. I. For leaders who are out there picking the right environment for them, where do they wanna work? Do they wanna be at a startup? Do they wanna be at a private equity backed company? Do they wanna be at a large public enterprise? How would you coach somebody through making that decision of when would a, when would a private equity backed firm be a great fit for them? Or maybe when would they want to go at a startup or a big public company?
Perry Steinberg: 24:54
from a private equity firm, a lot of what, what we see in the marketplace is, is roll-ups and understanding how to, to attack, uh, certain markets. So when I was at, at Symphony Talent, it was, uh, six different. Acquisitions that, that we had made over, over the years and, and putting it all together to, to attack one cohesive market. Um, it become, becomes critical, but that, that becomes a very different story than trying to, to work at a VC back company where it's product market fit and continuously, continuously evolving a product until you get the, the right product market fit versus understanding how to, to, to roll up organizations and being, but in both cases, you have to move very fast. I think it, it that, that is a very different mindset , when you're working at a, at a large public company, that might be a little bit slower moving, uh, because there's more dollars and, and customers in involved. But still, especially now, having to, to adapt to, uh, adapt to the new technologies is critical.
Keith Cowing: 25:55
And if you looked at different personas of executives, let's say different types of chief product officers, which types of chief product officers do you think you would say, oh, PE might be a great fit for you?
Perry Steinberg: 26:06
it's one that it really focuses on, on kind of understanding how to align and transform, uh, people and organizations. I. that, that, that, that's what I loved about going into to, to, uh. Portfolio companies that are private equity backed organizations, because it was about the transformation, it was about, uh, taking what a, a company does today. Uh, and from, and I, I, my specialty is growth equity, bringing it all together to, to really focus an organization. So to me, it's that leadership and that transformation. Um, where I you look at a, a smaller venture backed type company, uh, it's, it's someone who wants to continuously evolve, um, and find something that, that might not be readily available. There, there's the, the two ways that I think about it. A lot of it's coming together, um, with, with technology today and kind of where the markets are going, but that's really still two very separate, uh, I ideas of, of what one wants to, to do and spend time doing within their career.
Keith Cowing: 27:03
In having exposure to some PE-backed companies, I was blown away when I first got in there about how fast they make decisions and how fast they move. Or at big public companies, there's bureaucracy and politics and things, and then at venture-backed startups, like, yes, they can move fast, but. There's emotion behind it because it's the founder's baby and they're obsessive about it, which they should be, and that's their superpower. But because of that, there's a lot of emotional stuff and the team has come in because of this founding vision. And emotion slows things down at the big companies, politics slows things down. And private equity, there's, there's no room for bureaucracy or emotion. You just go and there's a purity to that, to a certain perspective on a, you know, capitalist spectrum. And it can be harrowing for others that are looking for things that were, maybe that's not a good fit. But if you're looking to move fast and make decisions, private equity is certainly set up to make that happen. They don't only support it, they require it.
Perry Steinberg: 27:59
That that's, that's exactly right.
Keith Cowing: 28:02
So. Well, Perry, this has been amazing. I have a final question that I ask people that I would love your take on, which is, what is a belief that you have held that has served you well during your career, but may hold you back going forward?
Perry Steinberg: 28:18
I guess measuring what, what matters. Um, you know, I, I, I think that it, it has served me extremely well, uh, because I think getting, getting at numbers is, is extremely valuable. I think it's, it's still going to serve me well going forward. But I think with, uh, AI and with this coming wave of kind of how businesses are transforming, that even has to be expedited more. One of the things that, that I've been really effective at, um. Within my career from being a CPO is, is just laying down a foundation and knowing where to get numbers and creating the, that, those numbers, um, going forward, I need to do that faster. I need to create more metrics and new metrics that, that even haven't been created yet. And then I need to, to understand that more data points that, that I could, I could pull in. And that goes back to the mindset shift that, um, what I did before is not going to be good enough. I need to continuously evolve and make it better going forward.
Keith Cowing: 29:14
Yeah. And also with the shift from a deterministic world to a probabilistic world with AI models, it's gonna have to change how we think about numbers. It's harder to measure people on a numbers basis than it is to measure straight up P&L performance numbers and. AI looks a little bit more like people when it comes to performance, and so it's gonna be an interesting measuring what matters is a whole field of its own right now with evals and things like that, and so that is certainly gonna be fascinating.
Perry Steinberg: 29:41
That's exactly right.
Keith Cowing: 29:42
Uh, Perry, thank you so much for sharing all your insights here. Listeners are lucky to be able to listen in and hear from some of your experiences and think about how they can, you know, leverage their skills and go through that mindset shift and think about what might be a good fit for them as a leader, and maybe learn from some of your experiences leading big public companies and private equity backed firms as well. Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
Perry Steinberg: 30:06
Thank you, Keith. It was great to be here.
Keith Cowing: 30:08
What a fantastic conversation with Perry Steinberg. Two things stood out to me. The first one is the importance of commitment and cadence when it comes to building trust. When you're undergoing rapid change, there are some things where you have to make high integrity commitments, which means that you do what you say you're going to do. A hundred percent of the time, and that earns the trust of the people around you. And the second one is about mindset shift, where the old playbooks don't necessarily hold anymore, and we need to make our next move our best, move, our ability to drive creative solutions, ask the right questions. That's what really sets us apart. And don't forget that. In today's world, and so if you found this conversation insightful like I did, please take a moment to leave a five star review on your favorite platform. It's the best way to help other leaders discover these conversations and it helps the show. Thank you, and until next time, enjoy the ride.
